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jane


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Jesus
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Hi all,

Our friend Dorothy has sent us the following site that has many links to sites that try to "disprove" the existence of Jesus

http://www.truthbeknown.com/christcon.htm

I haven't gone through all of them yet but it is clearly very ridiculous the argument they forumlated to disprove the existence of Christ.

Let's take alook at the following example,
(soruce: http://www.atheists.org/christianity/myth.html)

"If I [Jesus] bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." (John 5:31)
"I [Jesus] am one that bear witness of myself..." (John 8:18)
According to these scriptures, Jesus was a false witness.

Yes, this argment might be valid in terms of its philosophical structure. But the conclusion is wrong because the writer
1. has a lack of understanding of the basic of Christianity
2. did not read the verses in the context

Let's take a closer look at at the 2 reasons

First of all, we need to consider what it means to witness in both the secular and biblical context. In Deuteronomy 19:15, it was written ,"One witness is not enough to convict a man accused of any crime or offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. " Given this bible verse, today, both in the secular and Christian way, we would need 2 to 3 people to witness for anything.

In the verse John 5:31, Jesus was talking about if he were a nomal person, he wouldn't be able to tesitfy for for himself for he is only one person and the law requires 2 or 3. However, in the second verse, Jesus was talking about his special statues as God in 3 person. Now, Jesus is part of the trinity. God is expressed in 3 forms, the father, son, and the holy spirit. Therefore, Jesus is God and God is Jesus. Everything he said is witnessed by also by the father and the holy spirit. THerefore, whatever he says is testified!!!!

Against its own intension, these websites actaully exist to further prove the existence of God for it was written,

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist–he denies the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:22)

As we can see, God had already forsees that the emergence of anti-Christ!

Further, it's very heart-breaking as Jesus already mentioned,

You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. (John 5:39-40)

THese people are antichrist and they refuse to live happily in Christ. I guess as Christians, we are not to judge them in anyways, but to show them that Christ lives in deeds. Also,we human cannot fully understand the bible. All we can do is to pray for these people and ask for God's guidance.

Also pray for ourselves
Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

God bless,
Jane


By the way, could anyone expand on this topic? I know many people out there are very confused yet they are earnestly seeking for GOd. Let's pray that we can somehow help them out! I cannot do it alone, so brothers and sisters, help me out on this~ let's support each other!

-- Edited by jane at 07:25, 2004-10-08

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Psalm 84:11 For the Lord God is a sun and shield; the Lord bestows favor and honor; no good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless.
servant Joseph


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I believe the topic "Truthfulness of Christianity" is a hard one.


It's hard not because there's no evidence available.  Everyday, we spend much time chilling with friends, studying, reading, lazying, online... but consider how much time we have spent on researching Christianity?


I really really really really really really really really hope you read more, discuss with people, and get the whole picture before making your "lifetime decision"on believing in (proving) or not believing in (disproving) God.


I mean it.  It is your "lifetime decision"- probably the biggest and happiest decision you will ever make in your entire life.  Believing in a deity means discovering your source of life- your purpose to be on earth, what is right, what is wrong, ultimate moral guideline, etc.


I pray for you, amen



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The Fear of the Lord is to hate evil & to shun evil. Whoever walks in the counsel of the wicked lacks judgment, little knowing it will cost him his life...
frog


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Questions of truth are often difficult and require much more time and energy than simply reading someone else's conclusions.

If you happen to look through the website mentioned above by Jane please take the time to question everything you read, even as you question or do not question Christianity.

Just from reading through one of the articles which was talking about how Jewish people can dispute Christian missionaries and their message was very interesting but also quite scholarly and included a vast amount of information which I knew not about.  I searched these words online "Tosefta and the Baraitas" and found the same article, quotes from that article and some sights explaining what they were.  The quoted words are oral histories I believe of the Jewish people. 

The author of the article, which I was reading, often referred to the Tosefta and the Baraitas to secure his point of argument.  However, I question myself how accurate his sources of reference were as well.  While reading it I began to wonder how much of this article had been thoroughly thought through.  I wonder whether the author had ever actually read a page of the Bible's New Testament with an open mind that was unbiased to it's falsivity or it's accuracy. (However, know that the Bible can be difficult to understand.  Quite often it may take 2 or 3 reads or more or other verses to understand what it is trying to say.) There were various sentences where I thought, that could have been this that occurred in the Bible or that argument could have been replied with another verse from the Bible. 

One more thing.  From what i understand the Hebrew Torah (is that what they call it?) is the same as the Bible's Old Testament scriptures.  Right?  (please let me know if I am incorrect)  However, when I look at the Bible I am just as in awe of the Old Testament as I am of the New Testament.  Would not both of them have to make sense in order to be part of the same book?  There were many miracles that occurred in the Old Testament that could be just as ridiculous or amazing compared to the miracles performed in the New Testament.  I think that the Old Testament and the New Testament are linked together because of Jesus.  Jesus is the one who fulfills the prophecies in the Old Testament and Jesus is the one that brings the answer to our sin and separation from God.

However, I do not want to be one to tell you what is true and what is false.  I encourage you to read and explore.  Get right to the source.  If people say that the Bible is false and contradicts itself I dare you to go read the Bible from cover to cover.  Does it contradict?  When put in context do things still not make sense?  I would suggest either reading The Message (a modern day version of the Bible which is easier to read) or the NASB (New American Standard Bible) which I've heard is quite good as well or the New Living Translation is also good as well as the New International Version (NIV). 

You can find all these versions online at www.gospelcom.net you can even read the whole Bible online. 

The Bible makes many strong claims. However if they are true, it would make the biggest impact ever on life itself.  I think that that is why the Bible is so controversial to so many different things.

John 15

The World Hates the Disciples

18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.'[1] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

I feel that I am in need of a constant search for truth.  Often a decision made about Christ is only the beginning to that search for understanding of truth and what it is.  It is a long and arduous journey that must be pursued by dedication and endurance.  It is not something to be taken lightly.  I know, however, that if you truly seek with all your heart for truth you will find it ultimately.  Keep looking.



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